Apparently if you possess up to 500 cannabis joints you won’t be counted as a dealer, according to the Home Office. It seems a normal user might be expected to possess up to that many spliffs at one time. If so, then that’s a rather large stash of weed, isn’t it? What might they be doing with that many joints - getting ready for hibernation? Do nicotine smokers have that many fags (American readers - both of you - note that a ‘fag’ is a cigarette in English English) at any one time?
Anyway.
Has the government heard of ‘demand and supply’? Demand is what people do when they want something. Supply is how the more enterprising get rich - they sell to the demanders whatever it is that they are demanding.
If you want to stop drug abuse then slapping the dealers all over town and going soft on the users is a mistake. The arrangement with users should be simple: possession gets you a big fine the first time and a prison sentence thereafter. You get extra time inside if you refuse to identify your dealer. All David Cameron’s tosh about education is laughable. Kids who take drugs often won’t be at school to hear the lesson and, besides, people taking drugs already know the stuff’s not exactly a health supplement. They consume them for reasons - street credibility, excitement, cool, peer pressure, depression, gross stupidity etc - that are entirely beyond the reach of educators or common sense.
The lure of drugs - and the grip such a lifestyle can have on individuals - is that strong that it can only be combated by an equally strong - but opposing - force. Asking people to apply intellect for uncertain, intangible benefits that are largely abstract or, at best, long-term when instant gratification - along with its accompanying elevation of status amongst peers - beckons enticingly is a mostly wasted effort.
Ask anybody who smokes, eats too much, drinks too much, doesn’t exercise, spends more than they earn, doesn’t save for a pension, puts off important jobs or engages in any one of a large number of minor sins if they recognise that they would be better off if they didn’t. Almost all do recognise it - and some try hard to change but, in the end, we mostly continue to enjoy the moment and ignore the damage. We get some benefit now from the habit and that’s what counts. The same applies to drug use.
The motivation to resist the pressure to try drugs - or to resist continuing using them once one has got over the initial taboo - must be applied from outside. The application must come from the forces of law and order and what must be applied is pain. Only financial pain or custodial pain will remove from drug-taking the sense of bohemian living, harmless rebellion, ‘everybody’s doing it’ attitude, that many otherwise ordinary people associate with the habit. It’s not enough to say that the occasional spliff or tab is no big deal. On its own it may not be. And maybe the user is a well employed professional, with a family and his habit is infrequent so where’s the harm?
But the accumulative effect of all this use is an expanded drugs economy which means that dealing in drugs remains a viable profession for many otherwise useless people and who in turn encourage the importation of all sorts of narcotics into this country. Users supply profits to dealers. That’s why we have dealers and dealers will always find ways of getting their product into the country. It is users who should be targeted. When they are no longer users the stuff is no longer required.

4oz is a LOT of canabis. I don’t have any concept of how large a quantity of the other drugs is listed in that article, but I do with canabis. You see, when I was a wee lad, there used to be a lot of dealers in the pubs I frequented selling canabis (and not the other drugs) and most of my friends smoked it. In old money (i.e 10 years ago), 1/8 of an ounce cost £15. An ounce was a hundred pounds or more. 4oz was more like £300. That is a LOT of canabis - more than even the heaviest of (ab)users could get through in a month. Your average 18 year old kid would most likely get through (getting stoned 5 evenings per week, with friends, from one person’s supply) 4oz in 32 weeks!
That weight of drugs is not for users - it’s for small time dealers.
Comment by lascivious — December 1, 2005 @ 6:21 pm
Why is it that the conservative support for small government always seems to meet an abrupt end when it comes to behaviours they dislike? That’s not a dig but a serious question. I don’t understand how you rationalise this to yourself.
Here you are proposing imprisoning someone for using a drug you disapprove of. That’s a rather extreme governmental intervention into someone’s private affairs, especially from someone who wants the state out of private affairs. So if you get to interfere in other’s lives, why doesn’t everyone else get to interfere in your life?
You mention smoking and various other behaviours as ‘minor sins’ - most of these, including alcohol, are far more obviously harmful yet legal. Public bans aside, I’ve never heard a conservative or indeed anyone else suggest that smoking should be illegal. And I don’t think ever with a prison sentence attached. This, remember, is an activity that demonstrably kills.
Tie that one for me.
Comment by Frank O'Dwyer — December 1, 2005 @ 6:40 pm
Frank,
The reason conservatives or other liberty-minded people may be against drug abuse (and alcohol abuse for that matter) is that the usage of said mind-altering substances infringes upon the liberties of others who may not be so inclined.
Whether it be the burglary victim or the people who won’t go down on the High Street on a Saturday night. The behaviour of people who do drugs and alcohol to excess limits the freedom of everyone else.
I think it can be argued that the behaviour of smokers does not, but then again, a child has no choice in the smoky air that he breathes.
The answer to any obnoxious behaviour, whether it be drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes, is not to liberalise its use, but to make it less socially acceptable to do so.
With drugs already being illegal and a mark of street cred in some circles, perhaps making the opportunity cost of doing drugs that much greater will drive demand down. The borders definitely can’t be guarded as well as they should to keep the supply down, but supply would dry up if there is less demand.
And to say that drugs, and in particular, cannabis, are less harmless than cigarettes? I think we would know it if cannabis use was as great as cigarette. I know a paranoid schizophrenic (or whatever they’re calling him lately) who wouldn’t be where he is right now if it hadn’t have been for the influence of the demon weed. And his behaviour has had knock-on effects for everyone else in his life.
“Normal” cannabis has been found to cause psychotic episodes in people due to the brain chemistry it affects. I shudder to think what the latest versions of hydroponically horticultured skunk would do…The last time I tried it (over 5 years ago; you can bet I’ll never run for Conservative leader), the effects were as heavy as a class A drug. I wonder how far it has come in 5 years? This isn’t the weed your daddy smoked at Uni…And it is cheaper than ever to buy.
Cocaine is also pretty cheap now, too. One thing almost all the leaders of the drug producing countries say is if it wasn’t in demand no one would grow it. Maybe demand is the key…
Comment by James (Whatsthatsmell) — December 1, 2005 @ 9:50 pm
James,
Thanks for that. I’m not really trying to debate the drugs issue per se, but to understand how you’re drawing this line.
It seems to me that if you hold liberty as a primary value then one of the most serious sanctions of all is to imprison someone. And if some behaviour tends to lead to other ‘obnoxious behaviours’, well either those behaviours are themselves crimes or they are not. If they are then no new law is necessary. If they are not then who cares.
I think you could make the case that smoking is a far more directly harmful to others than the likes cannabis or alcohol. Easy enough to make a libertarian argument that there is no right to poison people, for example. It should be much harder to make a similar argument against something because of what it may make you do to others, and certainly it should be much harder to make one because of what it might do to yourself.
On the other hand if you take the approach of imprisoning people in order to reduce demand for something which has a secondary undesirable effect, then you can imprison anyone for almost anything. (Indeed the one you wish to imprison could argue that YOU are engaged in obnoxious behaviour and limiting freedom etc, and so your libertarian/conservative streak should be outlawed for tending to make you behave that way
I guess one man’s small government is another’s tyranny.
Comment by Frank O'Dwyer — December 2, 2005 @ 12:07 am
Don’t blame drugs, it’s the people - they’ll traffic and abuse any goods or services; sex, vehicles, fags, tax-discs.
Drugs are profitable that’s all. Not bad or good.
Comment by driverchris — December 2, 2005 @ 11:19 am
I’ve never heard a conservative or indeed anyone else suggest that smoking should be illegal.
You have now.
Comment by lascivious — December 2, 2005 @ 11:48 am
lascivious,
There’s always one
But…really? You’d imprison someone simply for smoking? Or are there various provisos?
Comment by Frank O'Dwyer — December 2, 2005 @ 11:51 am
My case is simple: I am fed up with 30% of the population trying to give me cancer or many forms of respiratory disease. If I punch someone, I can be arrested. Why not if I blow smoke in their face? Smoking in public places, or around non-smokers who object, should be illegal in my opinion. It was one of the few policies of Bliar that I agreed with. How typical of him to not do what he said he would.
I may leave myself open to accusations of being a ‘nanny-stater’, but I would rather that than have my rights breath impinged.
Comment by lascivious — December 2, 2005 @ 12:13 pm
my rights *to* breath impinged
Comment by lascivious — December 2, 2005 @ 12:14 pm
p.s - there are always provisos
Comment by lascivious — December 2, 2005 @ 12:16 pm
Lascivious,
Oh, I’ve no problem with a smoking ban in public places at all. And I’m a smoker. (Although I hate environments such as airports where you can’t smoke and you can’t go outside either.)
I think that’s a completely different thing to making smoking illegal though.
(Interesting tidbit: In many places where this ban exists - Ireland for example - you can’t smoke in pubs and you can’t drink on the street either. So to comply with both restrictions you’d have to stand in the doorway with your pint indoors and your fag outside
.
Comment by Frank O'Dwyer — December 2, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
You should move to Switzerland - like me. Very liberal when it comes to smoking in public places. For example, you can still smoke in airports and a restaurant with a non-smoking area is a novelty, not the norm. It’s the thing I am dreading the most, but the advantages for going outway the few disadvantages.
Comment by lascivious — December 2, 2005 @ 1:15 pm
Frank,
I agree with James - and would add this: there is definitely a place for the government because there are jobs the government can do better from its position than individuals can from theirs. It’s the nature of government involvement that I question.
From recent examples: the ban on smoking in pubs riles because it’s the government trying to influence the minutinae of our behaviour, not the general direction of our behaviour - which is, at its most, what the government should be allowed some say in. Smoking is legal and owning pubs is legal. Since both habits are legal banning one in the other is an interference too far.
Other examples include education and, more recently, pensions. Government Ministers cannot educate children and, I suggest, can do little even to direct the general trend of education. Aside from perhaps setting a basic compulsory curriculum (English, maths, history, physical education and a science, for example) and providing three independent, rigorous exams - an 11 plus, 16 plus and 18 plus - it would be better for schools to run themselves and answer to their customers. Government’s role should be little more than tweaking at the edges of what was already there, helping in small ways to make the process a little more efficient or productive.
Same with pensions. I’m no expert on this subject but it seems clear to me that placing our future prosperity in the hands of bureaucrats who will never have to answer for their mistakes is not the best way to do it. When did it become ‘natural’ to rely on the government for our old age pensions?
I take your underlying point though. It is difficult to put into a neat, succinct paragraph exactly where government should and shouldn’t have its fingers. One of the benefits of being a conservative is that you actually don’t have to form an ideology for everything. Sometimes the government should be involved, sometimes it shouldn’t. I think that renationalising the railways and the post-office could have its merits - as would privatising health and education. Inconsistent? Not if we go into the underlying reasoning.
Which is a subject for a different post..!
Comment by Gary Monro — December 2, 2005 @ 4:11 pm
Lascivious,
Stop with the rubbing it in about Switerland already. Or I won’t let you comment on my blog…!
Hope it’s all going well….
Comment by Gary Monro — December 2, 2005 @ 4:14 pm