One of the commenters to this log is in the process of denying the Nazi holocaust in the comments section of this post.
Because I don’t want another lengthy digression from the topic in hand (Iraq’s call for the wiping off the map of Israel) I’m posting his last comment here and then inviting interested parties to add their comments.
I hasten to add that, although I’m no scholar of Nazi history - and am well aware of the value of propoganda and the historical skewing that can take place to promote it - I do not accept that Nazi Germany had any other plans with the Jews than their extermination.
And, for the record: if Iran were to seriously threaten Israel in accordance with its recent words I for one would support any necessary means to neutralise that threat.
This posting isn’t to give a platform for a holocaust revisionist but to avoid jamming up the comments section with off-topic argument.
Ah, the tired old “Nazi” smear.
The standard answer to uncomfortable historical realities.
I guess I would be surprised if any intellectual response emerged on these issues.
Why no comment on the reference I presented.
It hardly accords with the legend of Auschwitz.
Which aspect of this pictorial do you suggest can be proven false?
How did millions escape to claim reparations?
Do you know the lamp shades made from human skin and soap manufactured from human fat have been dismissed by all historians as lies yet you will still regularly read of these absurdities in your media and Holocaust museums have exhibits.
The Melbourne Holocaust centre claims large numbers of Jews were exterminated by electrocution in specially made baths. This material is given to thousands of students every year that file in for their dose of propaganda.
No historian claims this as factual.
Why do revisionist historians have laws passed to make it a crime to question history?
Do you know many are in jail as I write because they dared challenge the sacred mantra.
Doesn’t this ring alarm bells for a thinking person.
Can you think of any other historical theme that is protected from critical examination by the force of law?
There is no hint of an extermination policy in the historical record unless you begin to interpret everything as a code.
It is true the German Government were keen to have the “Jews” emigrate because of their conspiracy behaviour in business and politics that had rendered Germany a basket case before Adolf Hitler came to power.
At first the “Jews” believed Hitler might be their man to progress the policy of monopoly but he was fiercely nationalistic which made him the enemy of the Globalist dreamers. He also began issuing money on the assets of Germany which allowed Germany to rapidly advance when the rest of the world still lay bogged in the depression which was simply the massive contraction of the global money supply.
Politicians around the world were becoming greatly interested in why Germany was an industrial juggernaut and autobahns were spreading across the German country side while Britain and other countries remained stagnant.
Hitler understood money and how it really works.
This knowledge had to be buried forever behind the Auschwitz hoax so people like DE would make banal and meaningless slurs like “Nazi” whenever the real history was discussed.
Hitlers tyranny went the way of all dictatorships. It self destructed in it’s own corruption but there are many aspects of what actually happened in Germany under the rule of Hitler that inform us today about the power of credit when released from the control of the Global Central Bankers.
Germany only had 40 odd million people and it almost defeated the rest of the world.
It achieved this amazing feat because money became the servant of the economic potential of the German people - not the dictator of scarcity and unemployment as Conservative party policy in Britain proposes along with the Labour policy which is identical.
The Auschwitz lie is the strategy to protect the economic policies of the German miracle, make no mistake it was a miracle, and widely reported around the world at the time as such.
The whole subject has been presented with such exaggeration, lies and emotion it is certainly difficult to make any progress in a reasoned manner.
I must admit I find it a great fascination to observe ignorance in people who actually believe they understand reality. I understand why DE thinks as he does but I also know if mankind is not released from the madness of the policy of monopoly another world war is probable as a last resort to organise a disintegrating globalist Utopian dream. I would like to avoid this.
It always bewilders me why people like DE choose to smear instead of study. This is the Pavlovian success of a life of propaganda.
I choose research every time, even when I am confronted with what may at first appear absurd. Because of my lifetime study and interest in the power of propaganda on us all and the devilishly tricky strategies of power I know I could easily be fed a pup by the media.
The following is the referenced link in my comments above.
http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm
There are a number of very interesting links of this page worth reviewing.
Gary states, “I do not accept that Nazi Germany had any other plans with the Jews than their extermination” but ignores the factual reality of the real Auschwitz camps.
The Hollywood Auschwitz always comes accompanied by searing music and striped uniforms both providing Pavlovian triggers in the public mind.
Facts no longer count. Evidence is not needed.
Critics should be punished. Never, never forget.
Why would you have hospitals for the old and sick in an extermination camp?
Wake up guys, the truth is obvious once you switch on your rational thinking.
Auschwitz is the most effective and successful propaganda strategy of the 20th century.
The money creation fraud is the con of all human experience.
One protects the other.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 6, 2005 @ 11:59 am
The belief that the first World War was lost due to Jewish Communists started the idea that only be removing the Jews could Nazi Germany achieve its full potential.
The camps were almost certainly created before the Genocide policy was put in place. The camps first priority was to remove Jews from the mainstream German society. Auschwitz, the one camp people repeat most, was a bit more ruthless as it wasn’t in Germany. But it started as a POW camp for Poles, gypsies and Russians.
The camps always functioned as Labour camps, with the necessary functions to do this. First only the weak were killed - then the rest. Whether this was to maintain the work rate or to make it easier for the commandents I don’t know.
Mass extermination was not a known science; it was an organisational problem that had to be solved. There are plenty of available records of commands and plans showing the Nazis toiling over this issue.
Much as I don’t like the attitude of the present day Israelis, that is no reason to try to reverse history in favour of genocide. The Germans kept enough records to prove that millions of prisoners were slaughtered. And the missing people have not re-appeared in Nevada.
I have no issue with historians trying to work out why and how the Holocaust happened - there are still blank spots. The 6 million figure was reduced recently to 5.5m with more research.
But holocaust denial in order to promote anti Israeli propaganda is not reasonable. Most totalitarian regimes left to their own devices tend to kill their own people - it would be better to try to understand this than to cover it up.
Comment by DE — November 6, 2005 @ 5:01 pm
As with the various conspiracies propounded by Mr Brooks and others the thing I just cannot get my head around is how they manage to get so many hundreds and thousands of people to lie in order to create the conspiracy.
In this case, every concentration camp inmate who says the camps were murderous, barbaric and that people died in their hundreds and thousands is lying. Similarly, every inmate covers up the truth that, according to Mr Brooks’ link to an anonymous website, the camps actually had excellent medical facilities, inmates’ orchestras, theatres, cinemas, prisoners’ brothel, religious and sports facilities and so on.
Whoever is organising these various acts against democracy - 9/11, the holocaust, World War 2 itself, perhaps - is one extraordinarily clever person.
Comment by Gary Monro — November 6, 2005 @ 6:53 pm
DE there are no “available records of commands and plans showing the Nazis toiling over this issue” {Extermination}.
There is not a single document that supports the extermination thesis in the record of the time.
Yes, some amazing claims were made in the post war trials but any student of legal matters would conclude these trials were a complete farce.
The general public would not be aware that on appeal many decisions of these post war trials were reversed but some had already been hung.
What justice!
The holohoax was manufactured in these trials by professional teams of “witnesses”.
This is all on the record for those who research deeply.
There is no record of a single person ever being gassed.
In fact the records show a number of German officers being prosecuted for mistreatment of the inmates of Auschwitz and other camps.
DE suggests that “The 6 million figure was reduced recently to 5.5m with more research.”
In fact a revision of the figures downward has been occurring for many years.
The following link points has us being informed that instead of 4 million deaths at Auschwitz the real figure might be 1.1 million and the previous numbers were “politically motivated.”
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/controversies/deathroll/MHerald050492.html
This is just one example of the progressive revision downwards of the sacred 6 million mantra which continues to be repeated in the press and school literature.
Other historians continue to take these figures lower as time goes forth.
I believe the pro-holocaust camp is in fact now down to 850 000 in some historical works.
This can all be evaluated by any one who can read.
Myself and others who challenge the honesty of the whole “holocaust” story are still branded “Nazi” simply for raising questions and deferring to the factual record.
The gassing’s mythology claims inmates were tricked into entering shower blocks and then unexpectedly gassed with Zyclon.
The story is a scientific nonsense if you study the nature and behaviour of Zyclon and the stories presented by “witnesses” at various trials and in the “Holocaust” literature.
Many making the claims have been exposed as complete frauds.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n5p15_Weber.html
This is just one famous example.
DE did you know crematoria do not even exhaust smoke yet some witnesses claim they could see the chimney stacks belching smock day and night and the race of the victim could be identified by the colour of the smoke. What a joke!
At the Auschwitz exhibit huge chimneys were constructed outside the crematoria exhibit to support the mythology but they connect to nothing.
They are a film set construction for the Hollywood deluded public.
De, did you know the people in Auschwitz corresponded with the outside world right throughout the war and not a single mention was ever made of extermination in gas chambers.
The Auschwitz plan was open and the sites where legend would have us believe millions were being taken to their deaths were in fact in open view of the camp activities.
The story is just a massive concoction of bazaar lies that has delivered billions toward the Israel project and effectively silenced by fear and intimidation any discussion of “Jewish” power and influence or the “money” policy employed in Germany to revitalize the depression economy towards an industrial and technological world leader in the space of only 6-8 years when the rest of the world remained under the Banking cartel induced Depression.
My criticism of Israel is hardly propaganda.
The homes have been bulldozed. The land has been stolen. The Palestinians live in a virtual prison camp environment.
You might suggest Israel needs security but that is like arguing for the security of a burglar in your home.
Fancy these settlers leaving western countries to build houses on stolen Palestinian land expecting the locals not to be unhappy.
What an absurdity to justify and support this type of criminal policy. Some of these people are simply stark raving lunatics who justify there actions because “GOD” gave them the land thousands of years ago. This is the level of the argument.
Is this your argument DE?
If not what is it?
The Auschwitz effect is very powerful and will not be easily surrendered but in the circles I live and work any one who wants to tell stories better be ready to justify their views and bring forth some evidence.
My view is based on the factual record of the time.
DE and those who promote the myths have to imagine and invent that which there is not one shred of evidence to support beyond the false court testimonies and fraudulent literature.
There is no extermination weapon and no evidence of the crime ever having taken place.
The exposure of the Holohoax is almost comical once you begin to examine some of the things many people have believed without critical examination.
This lack of ability to think and research has made the “war on terror” possible as a propaganda strategy because apparently educated and sophisticated people like those who post on this blog really have not even begun to comprehend the real nature of the political world they function in.
I just watch and observe with bewilderment considering the information is all freely available.
Mind control is real and present here on the Monro blog. There are many victims.
My life is focused on fracturing that control and returning individual thought to society.
The policy of Monopoly can not tolerate individual thought.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 6, 2005 @ 6:57 pm
Gary, you are a party to the money creation scam as a member of the Conservative Party but I would never suggest you are lying or conscious of your ignorance.
You are simply so disposed as to never bother to research the subject.
If you had to undertake an academic examination on the subject you would be exposed as a completely ignorant on the “money” question.
Most of your colleagues all the way to the top of political parties are just plain ignorant.
Likely, you will never have to worry because this is the level of knowledge required for a successful career in politics.
Your lack of knowledge is protected by the media and the “conspiracy” chant that apparently excuses your responsibility to examine and understand the things of this world that you wish to claim governance over.
The camp inmates do not in fact have any knowledge of the “gas chambers” because the official story claims the whole “extermination”
policy was conducted in secrecy.
You may not be aware that the “Holocaust” was actually not popular as a propaganda tool until the seventies and early eighties when Hollywood ramped up the production of epic dramas.
Just imagine how you would feel if you were an inmate of Auschwitz and discover 30 years after that millions were being allegedly “gassed” and you knew nothing of it, in fact you may well have been eating and living well. Feeling very guilty and confused you might join the chant and the regular reparations cheques are too good to refuse. Like you Gary, most of these people are victims of the hoax.
If you took the time to study the interviews and contradictions in the testimony of “survivors” you would gain a very good understanding of the whole messy question.
Gary, there are thousands of articles on the web that examine these issues and I doubt any intelligent person who genuinely studied the subject would continue to believe the “gassing” myths.
The critical dilema is why you and others refuse to undertake independent research but believe media sources of information that have been exposed regularly as hopeless at delivering the truth.
Yes Gary, the media told you Iraq had WMD when writers like myself where having letters published and on the desk of my parliamentarians
demanding the evidence to support the claims.
Are journalists just hopeless at research?, can you and others not use a search engine to read and judge other opinions?, do you not know that conspiracy is the central theme of human activity?, have you never read political biographies and political history?, can you not check the “credit creation” reference in your encyclopedia to discover all money is made out of thin air?, how can you just continue to dismiss all the information that does not fit your views without demanding explanations?, would it be too much to expect you to search “holocaust hoax” and evaluate the arguments over several days reading?.
Gary, why do you think Ernst Zundel is in jail in Germany charged with defaming the dead because he questioned the facts of WW2 history which we have established are very fluid?
Do you know he was extradited from America to Canada, then on to Germany where the most repressive free speech laws are prosecuted.
How do educated people think their way to ignorance, I do not pretend to comprehend.
What I do know is that none of the claims I make are unsupported by evidence and any time those in power are threatened with scrutiny of their myths and lies they scream invective and cry for my internment away from public access but they never, I repeat never present the evidence to support their conspiracy theories because there is none.
You see Gary, you continue to charge me with conspiracy suggestions but you appear to be completely oblivious that it is your views that are conspiracy theories - gassing extermination theories, bin laden terror theories, Leeds four suicide bomber theories, etc etc.
Your theories are unsupported by facts, they do not stand up to scrutiny, but they do serve power and it’s agendas and will not likely ever be properly and publicly examined because there are too many like yourself who believe and trust the lies of the media.
My views are always we need to look closer and have a proper public investigation so we know the truth.
The contradictions and absurdities must be examined.
The factual and documented records of Auschwitz are my source for understanding camp realities.
Your violently anti German conspiracy is a Hollywood creation unsupported by the documents and record of the time.
There are dozens and dozens of books that examine and expose the “money” trickery. I only read one at the age of 21 to see what a load of lies I had been delivered in my “education”.
Doesn’t it worry you a little that you do not know where money comes from and the methods of it’s creation?
I have an article from Readers Digest that includes an interview with US Central Bankers who candidly confess they create out of thin air every day billions of dollars.
Gary, do you have any idea how large a proportion of all our living costs are in fact indirectly the cost of Money, yet it is in fact created out of thin air just as you create km when you travel to and from work or travel on a holiday.
Just imagine Gary how beneficial it would be if you could delude the whole world that they had to buy Km of yourself every time they traveled from one place to another.
You would need some control over education and the media to sustain the ruse. You would probably need to have objectors branded “Nazi” supporters and suggest Hitler also was opposed to buying km. Lots of TV and cinema themes would need to sustain your currency and monopoly.
Detractors might need to be jailed or executed as terrorists.
Gary , those who control the creation of our money supply are slowly possessing the planet.
They deliberately kill millions upon millions, year in - year out, by denying the abundant fruits of creation to the suffering and poor through the actions of debt dictatorships.
If you did understand what I attempt to impart I am certain you would not support these policies.
Your ignorance is my failure.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 6, 2005 @ 10:17 pm
Gary, this reference suggests that 74,000 people died in the Auschwitz camp but most from natural causes.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/controversies/deathroll/Lists210989.html
Gary, could you please respond specifically to this information.
Why do you think the Conservative Party isn’t celebrating that millions thought dead are indeed alive.
Can this information just be ignored Gary and DE while you go on pretending my point of view is absurd and yours is correct.
It takes a hell of a man to admit he has been fooled.
This deception is at the top of the scale.
It is but one of dozens now established to effect control over gullible minds by the media and the political establishment.
The Conservative party has no interest in justice and truth, does Gary Monro belong in that company?
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 6, 2005 @ 11:12 pm
“There is no record of a single person ever being gassed.” Sorry Mr Brooks, I think this is the point where I get off.
Comment by DE — November 7, 2005 @ 12:47 am
DE, name a person and present the evidence.
I am well accustomed with people withdrawing from discussion. This is the usual response to tricky facts that confront the lies of our times, in particular sensitive subjects like Auschwitz.
You forgot to counter my evidence DE.
How do you explain the Auschwitz factual record as opposed to the Hollywood myth?
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 7, 2005 @ 1:25 am
Mr Brooks,
To clarify my remarks about conspiracy. I was not accusing you of concocting a conspiracy. Believe me, if I was then I’d be paying you a compliment because I have nothing but admiration – awe, even – for somebody who has successfully conned the entire world – from east to west and lalpoints in between - on one of the most monstorous stories in history.
I am suggesting that, if you’re correct in your assertions that so many big events - such as 9/11 and the Nazi extermination programme - are completely untrue and the subject of fabrication then the agents of conspiracy are doing an astonishing job.
First: you asked me to respond directly to the link to David Irving’s article which says that records of 74,000 Oswiecim (Auschwitz, I assume) deaths have been recovered in Russia.
Well, I am going to assume that the claim being made is that these records were the only records kept at Auschwitz and, further, that they accurately record all the deaths that took place there. I can honestly say that, as I am no scholar of Nazi history, I have no idea whether these assumptions are valid or not.
But that’s not been my point anyway. I’m not going to get into the argument over the holocaust simply because the amount of research required to understand claim and counter-claim is currently not possible for me. And I admit to not knowing a whole lot about the accepted story of the holocaust, let alone the conspiracy theories that surround it.
But I am asking questions and, really, since you’re making the claim that the story’s false – and I’m not specifically saying you’re wrong (even though, I admit, I am casting doubt) - you should be pleased to answer them.
I do want to know if, rather than apparent discrepencies in the facts, there is any evidence of the actual conspiracy itself. By that I mean, are there any documents that refer to the plan to deliberately deceive the world about the Nazi programme regarding Jews? Have we ever found anybody who has been part of the actual conspiracy itself? Have we found anybody who can name a person who was involved in the conspiracy itself?
The conspiracy would have to be huge and would involve all sorts of people: the Americans, the British, the Canadians, the French, the Russians and the Germans themselves.
When I searched for holocaust evidence I found the following link to a piece in which the writer asks for specific, identifiable evidence that there is a deliberate attempt to create all the supporting documentation diaries, witnesses (German and Jewish) and so on necessary to convince the communist east and the democratic west – and all other interested parties – that mass extermination took place when, in fact, it hadn’t.
Please take a look and offer your response: http://www.holocaust-history.org/~jamie/the-hoax.shtml
Comment by Gary Monro — November 7, 2005 @ 1:22 pm
Like Gary, I am no expert on the Holocaust, so like most people I tend to believe the version of history that most others do. Rationally it would be incumbent on those who believe otherwise to convince us, not the other way around.
However, on economics I am on firmer ground. The idea that the banks caused the depression is total ignorance. The depression was caused by government error, following a typical investment bubble.
The banks were massive losers from the loss of wealth. They like their customers to be rich, not poor.
Comment by EU Serf — November 7, 2005 @ 3:09 pm
The genocidal intent was clearly there; the means and opportunity was there. Did it occur? Liberating troops and journalists saw it, photographed it. It was so monstrous that they forced locals to go and see it, so that it would not later be called a fabrication; there were loads of survivors, with taooed numbers; there were perpetrators, who admitted what they had witnessed; even Eichman didn’t deny - he pleaded mitigation. Germans themselves, guilty of unleashing a terrible war, would hardly admit to something that wasn’t done by them; the demographic “hole” caused by the holocaust; all these things, and many more make it too difficult to deny. But my real problem is with the deniers; I never detect in them a cold impartiality; they aren’t of the same metal as, say, Copernicus, who discovered something so unpalatable to himself and society, that he delayed publishing till his death; or Darwin, who also was so appalled by the implications of his theory, that he delayed publication. The deniers are just too delighted by their “discoveries”. Irving is known to associate with the far-right; he has used racist language (and I am not a pc person); he is a Germanophile (that alone is no crime, but in association with the other matters, it is telling.) Similarly Douglas Reed, an otherwise excellent WW2 reporter, had a “thing” about old boy networks, which led him to hate Jews; and you, Mr. Brook? I don’t know; but since in your view the Jews are responsible for so much in the way of lies and oppression and theft, and since in my view they seem to have behaved like any other normal human being, but in appalling circumstances, I’m afraid I just don’t trust your encyclopaedic regaling of “facts”. Frankly, if the deniers want to persuade, I think some closely investigated detail in an academic journal, which might contribute in a small way to a re-assessment of the holocaust is a little more convincing than these grand, sweeping, assertions based on absence of evidence, on un-answerable questions, and the selection of facts which, strung together, make such “convincing” stories. Almost any event in history can be reinterpreted in this manner. Wasn’t the bombing of Pearl Harbour a plot by Roosevelt, to bring the US into the war? There is plenty of “evidence” to prove it. But I’m afraid I don’t buy it.
Comment by robert aldridge — November 7, 2005 @ 4:18 pm
Eu serf, the Depression could have been avoided any time if sensible credit policies had been enacted. If the flow of debt repayments, money cancellation, exceeds the creation of new loans, money creation, then the money supply contracts.
Money is a system not a commodity. If the money supply contracts dramatically - tight money supply - the ignorant masses panic attempting to get their hands on some of that stuff they need to pay their debts. There is never enough money in existence to extinguish the counter debts in existence but this is masked by constant economic “growth”. When credit, access to money, is withdrawn, individuals, companies or Governments are out of business because it is only the flow of new credit {debt} that allows the growing cost of money “interest” to be repaid.
When a $1000 pound loan is advanced as credit it can only be extinguished at some time in the future by a greater sum of money, the initial advance + interest. Where does the extra money come from? It certainly appears in the cost ledger and on the price ticket at the consumption end of the cycle. Only further money advances can assist to extinguish the loan but naturally further advances contain the same inherent mathematical flaw and so the debt growth must go on or “depression” is the result.
Eu Serf, at the pinnacle of banking these issues are all understood but the public is kept in ignorance for if communities realised they could create their own money supply out of nothing to facilitate the incarnation of their own wealth potential the power of the money trickery would be exhausted. In a Nationalist sense, this is what Germany did in the early thirties.
The international banking system then set out to destroy this idea, the history books tell how it was done and the continued strategy to hide the money secrets.
Robert, Liberating troops and journalists saw the results of highly concentrated work camp communities that had suffered badly by the Allied strangulation of their supply lines over many months. Disease and pockets of starvation were indeed tragic and many thousands died even after the allies took control of the facilities.
This is hardly a result of a German extermination program, one could even suggest with some credibility that it was in fact the result of the Allied extermination program of the German Nation.
Robert, “gas chambers” were not the cause of these horrors.
Immediate post war newsreel fanned the extermination legend showing the clothing fumigation chambers at Dachau to the world and claiming German atrocities but no serious historian ever claims “gassing” took place in Dachau which was in German territory and was inspected after the war by all and sundry.
All the graphic horror stories were centred on the camps that were not accessible to western media and authorities behind then Soviet lines.
This allowed the propaganda to go unexamined for decades. In recent times increasing access to the facilities and archives have slowly released the truth to those taking notice.
The graphic horrors you and I have seen on newsreel will likely be from camps that have never been connected with “gas chambers”.
I have no intention of negating any persons legitimate plight and suffering but to make suggestions about my motive, which is seeking the truth, hardly impacts on the factual realities.
Robert, your confession that you won’t “buy” the “evidence” is very telling.
So what is your world view based upon if it is not the evidence of things.
You reveal the mindset of the world that can not shake the propaganda because the truth is just too confronting.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 7, 2005 @ 6:56 pm
Gary, are you serious in your logic here?
If your house is robbed and you evidence the event with photographs and witness statements that stand scrutiny under cross examination your case does not depend on you producing the motivations or planning of the crime. This article is a complete distraction from the facts.
Where is the evidence to support your “gassing” charge.
McCarthy provides none. He is a professional distracter from facts. I do not get distracted.
If no evidence is produced yet the cinema and education system has soaked the minds of the public with a story unsupported by fact for many decades then questions must be asked.
This currently will land you in jail in many European countries so getting to the bottom of the hoax is tricky.
You seem little interested in answering the anomalies at the camps I have presented.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 7, 2005 @ 8:58 pm
Mr Brooks,
As I have said, I am no historian and the anomolies at the camps were on an anonymous site - provided by you - whose claims I do not know where to begin to confirm or deny (and please don’t provide me with more similarly anonymous sites).
You have ignored my central question - put more eloquently in the link I provided: if the holocaust did not happen it is surely the most huge and monstorous deceit in history. Aside from the anomolies (which I’m not discounting but putting to one side while I pursue my more pressing enquiry) where is the firm evidence of a group or committee or collection of people who were able to fool the entire world all this time - and continue to do so? Who are they? How did they manage to start this lie? How did they keep it going for the last 50 years?
Who are they?
Comment by Gary Monro — November 7, 2005 @ 9:24 pm
They’re the Philosophers. The global conspiracy started before the Wars to control global human behaviour through global money machinations. Since all money is really etheral and only a shared hallucination, it’s easy to become a helpless pawn of the money con. After the 2nd World War, Volgin stole the Philosopher’s secret fund, and most of the philosophers were dead.
They are succeeded by the La-Li-Lu-Lay-Lo, also known as the Patriots. All that is known about them is that they have DEEP roots in the White House and control everything with absolutely NO evidence of their existence. Absence of proof is proof of presence. I mean, if they really weren’t there, there would be at least SOME evidence that they are there, you see? You must refute my evidence, I do not get distracted!
I hear it’s amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hara-kiri Rock. I need scissors! 61!
Comment by Dumb Brit — November 7, 2005 @ 11:45 pm
Gary, the “Holocaust” is a term with the reality and exactness of the word “Jew”. You can find many different opinions as to their definition.
I do not deny the “Holocaust” never happened as you suggest because I do not believe the term is valid in an historical discussion. The term belongs in the study of propaganda.
I have claimed the evidence supports the reality that the “gassing” atrocity stories of Auschwitz and elsewhere are a fraud.
There is no evidence, documentary or “survivor” testimony that has ever stood up to scrutiny under analysis or cross examination.
In fact many frauds and fraudsters have been exposed beyond any question. This is a fact beyond any dispute.
The two fraudulent literary works that I have referenced give you a cast of responsible parties including publishers, researchers, journalists, fellow authors and of course the whole public who fail in their standards of research and truth.
Gary, you are a party to the conspiracy because you can read and think and aspire to governance over your community but demonstrate a blind logic that ignores critical issues and information that should motivate urgent research.
You are certainly correct in you suggestion of the gravity and scale of the Auschwitz deceptions and lies.
You continue to avoid the questions and encourage distraction.
I would never pretend to know the exact motivation of any other, it is only by the study of the documented record that we can discover and judge what really happened.
I and many others have attempted to discover why the claims made and published are not supported by the factual record. You might be surprised to know Gary, I never get an answer.
It is against the law to publicly ask the question Gary.
Just because the factual record and the Hollywood mythology are dramatic contrasts, just because the deception is of enormous magnitude and breadth, just because the scale of this delusion is almost beyond belief in it’s boldness, none of these observations add to or detract from the adjudication of the facts.
There is no evidence that “gassing” ever occurred.
Yes Gary, It is very difficult to accept that you could be fooled along with most of the population.
Tragically, this is indeed the case.
I am not suggesting you might be totally convinced by anything I might write or claim.
I, like yourself was bewildered when first presented with these claims. I studied many novels at school on the “Holocaust” theme.
I admit until I began my research I had not even noticed that we had regularly had “Holocaust” themes in Expression and Literature subjects all through my senior years at school.
I spent many months reading revisionist texts and then rereading the “Holocaust” texts.
I was dumbfounded just as you demonstrate in your comments that a deception of this magnitude could be possible.
The point is Gary, if you take the time to seriously examine the “gas chamber” question the answers will gradually unfold towards an understanding of how it has come to be.
The human mind is in fact manipulated in subtle ways that you have not yet discovered.
The discovery is awaiting all who have a genuine tenacious love of the search for truth.
I have no pretensions that I have the writing skills or logical ability to confront a life time of steady propaganda lies, if only I did.
My best hope is to light a spark in the darkness so you might find a new direction of thought and lead yourself to the light.
I know I am grateful that I was given a spark at a young age.
I sometimes ponder how I would react at 43 years of age if confronted with the knowledge I present to others.
I shudder that I might have lived so long believing in such utter outright nonsense as the “shortage” of money and these psychopolitical
“gassing” lies.
Why waste the rest of your life believing in fantasy Gary.
The truth is the greatest adventure a man can experience, though not without some hardship.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 8, 2005 @ 1:02 am
These Websites have several thoughtful essays that introduce many issues of relevance for further study if you were to make the effort.
I admit it is a challenge to untangle your mind from the propaganda. Genuine effort is required.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~abutz/
http://www.vho.org/
http://www.codoh.com/
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 8, 2005 @ 1:39 am
Last attempt Mr Brooks:
I am not denying or supporting claims of a holocaust here and, I must say, your somewhat condescending comments are starting to grate.
What I am trying to ascertain is whether the source of this enormous lie has been identified - names, perhaps - and if there is any evidence at all of a concerted, deliberate and planned conspiracy to convince the world that so many millions perished.
That there are people who like to play the victim, to manipulate, exaggerate and just plain lie is not news. That the whole holocaust story is a lie is news if the perpetrators of the lie are identified.
I’ll ask about their motives once we’ve identified the liars.
Comment by Gary Monro — November 8, 2005 @ 9:54 am
Gary writes “Last attempt Mr Brooks:”
as he backs out the door of the “gassing” controversy.
Gary, clearly the liars and those who unconsciously spread the lies are the millions upon millions of Holocaust “gassing” story promoters, hardly rocket science.
Search “Teaching the Holocaust”.
Who invented the lie?
It’s all in the transcripts of the post war trials. The first big “atrocity” stories came out of the propaganda machines of the Allied war effort and occasionally made it into the press at the time.
Six Million “gassing” propaganda was employed during the first World War.
The Butz, Hoax of the 20th Century, investigation has a whole chapter on the early “stories” that began the WW2 myths and the various individuals. Butz is highly detailed and meticulous. His book was published decades ago and still stands uncontested, simply unread by most.
Gary I do not seek to be confrontational and challenging without cause.
I cannot do research for you. I did all the research 20 + years ago and have the library and vast files to show for it.
I guess it is unlikely you will take the trouble to investigate the subject despite the spark of contradictions I have presented.
You have to live with your decision. My responsibility as an individual who has done the intensive study of the subject is draw attention to the misinformation and lies when I come across them. The foundation issue is not me or the probability or incredulous nature of the scam.
The issue is what is the truth.
It is the search for truth that reveals the liars
and their invention, complicity or ignorence.
If you are genuine you will search for the truth.
Information and propaganda are deliberately a tangled mess therefor it is hard work.
The Butz book is banned in a number of European countries and if you get caught with it in your luggage by customs life gets very interesting.
Of course there is nothing to be alarmed about in book banning policies!
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 8, 2005 @ 7:33 pm
Gary, clearly the liars and those who unconsciously spread the lies are the millions upon millions of Holocaust “gassing” story promoters, hardly rocket science.
Again you fail to address Gary’s question of how do those millions and millions keep this a secret from everyone else (and apparently from each other)? Who is in charge of it.
And if what you say is true how come one of the conspirators has not broken ranks and spilled the beans? A story like that with proof would be worth a fortune.
Where is the testimony from people who have actually been in those camps that are consistent with your explanation?
How come anyone who was actually there confirms the “lies”?
Comment by Frank O\'Dwyer — November 8, 2005 @ 9:06 pm
Frank, I answered these questions previously.
If nothing I am patient.
The whole official story depends on accepting that the “gassing” was done in secrecy.
There is no evidence of the time in all the documents, plans, budgets, private correspondence, military monitoring of German communications {extensive at Auschwitz as the codes had been broken before the war, Red Cross reports, etc etc etc, that evidences “gassing”.
The “witness gassing ” stories are in fact very rare, invented much later, and are quite frankly laughable when cross examined.
You should read the Canadian Zundel trial transcripts to see just what a joke several of these stories turned out to be when under scrutiny. It is rare that they are scrutinised because the whole phenomena has wrapped itself in a sacred blanket of religious character.
The record that is consistent with my view is the hundreds of tonnes of archives in the US , Britain, Germany, and Russia that document the events of the day during the period.
These records are mostly very complete and there is no mention of the extermination by “gassing”.
In all the correspondence to families and friends outside Auschwitz, inmates never claimed any such thing was happening.
Even today few people actually tell the “gassing” story. Most just talk of loosing touch with relatives. We simply are left to imagine a “gassing” fate.
I have no doubt that most of these inmates of work camps now believe that some how this horror was happening and it was kept from them. The German people have to a lesser degree also come to accept that evil was happening out of their view.
This is the power of propaganda.
It is still incredulous to me that this can be achieved and I have engaged the issue for over twenty years at many political levels.
This subject is in my view the one study that unlocks the political reality of the world.
My children learn about it regularly. At school they would get a diet of lies as I did.
If more do not unlock and act upon this political reality the 60 million who perished in the 2nd world war will seem like a minor skirmish
compared with what is to be unleashed upon humanity to protect these lies and the power behind them.
Bin laden is just another hoax brand to sell the Muslim conspiracy theory which in fact does not have any reality beyond the organisation and manipulations of the western intelligence apparatus.
Manufactured Nightmares are essential to advance the policy of Monopoly.
Regularly now we hear of people being reunited with family that they lost touch with during the wartime chaos.
Clearly as the record indicates many did die from disease and hunger in the final chaos of the retreating German lines and the Allied strangulation of all supplies.
Often the inmates of the work camps were given the option of staying and accepting Russian rule or facing the arduous march forward to the next German held camp. Huge moving populations of hungry and diseased swamped already stressed camps. The newsreels show the tragic results.
I accept my point of view seems incredulous but it is simply based upon the facts.
Do some research and see if you can find the genuine evidence to validate the “gassing” atrocity stories.
The trail will be identical in character to the Blair WMD fiasco, the same type of characters and groups are responsible, the strategies and methods of deception are as old as time itself.
The human mind is very vulnerable to very bold gigantic lies, where small fibs get exposed.
Most people just can not comprehend that;
# they could be fooled on such a big issue
# anyone could be so dishonest to attempt
such a staggering deception
# that the media and information is so
subtly manipulated to achieve this end
# that someone would have already told them
if the claim I make is true.
All these issues are given comprehension once you consider how fear and peer pressure have rendered criticism of any “Jewish” issue as racist. This is a clever ruse and it works.
The Historians who examine the archives and reveal the facts are branded non persons and then pompously there views are ignored as if they are a plague. This is all just tricky control of the public.
David Irving is certainly a rascal but his research is beyond dispute. To make ridiculous assertions that he is a Nazi or similar nonsense just avoids dealing with the facts.
Irving was the darling of British society until his research of Hitler revealed not a single document of the “gassing” policy.
Testimony to the propaganda power, Irving initially reviewed his writings claiming the “Final Solution” must have been instigated by lower levels of command without Hitler’s knowledge.
Irving opened a file for every day of Hitler’s life during the war period and entered every known document to draw his conclusions.
There are literally tonnes and tonnes of documents that survived the war in archives that detail to the point of boredom every move and decision of the German Government just as today you could find the record of your government going about it’s business.
In fact the Germans were extreme when it came to documenting and recording the bureaucratic wheels turning.
Irving dramatically altered his view after reading and considering the Leuchter Report which did chemical analysis and technical analysis of the “gassing” claims under request from Ernst Zundel who was preparing for his first “Holocaust” trial in the early eighties.
Irving appeared as a witness at this trial.
It was the Leuchter research that prompted Irving to respond by challenging those who promote the “gassing” legend to prove their case. Irving has been attacked by the establishment ever since and smeared as a “Nazi”.
I know my comments are very much a narrative but the issues are all discussed at length on the Web where the arguments and evidence can be weighed and sifted.
Naturally the “lunatic Nazi” presence is to be found but deep study will reveal who organises these essential pieces of the jigsaw also.
Propaganda is the filthiest activity of humans and responsible for the greatest crimes.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 9, 2005 @ 2:38 am
This seems a reasonable summary, and also puts the revisionist movement in perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
Comment by DE — November 9, 2005 @ 1:00 pm
DE, some of the wikipedia reference is no doubt correct, some is exaggerated and misinterpretation and some of the reference is totally false.
Hollywood movies, TV epics and novels by the dozens hundreds if not thousands tell all manner of tales but the there is no factual basis to the “gassing” legend except the propaganda material of allied psychopolitical campaigns and Zionist promoters.
The “execution gas chambers” and the “death camp” themes are complete mythology unless you see it in terms of the disease epidemics and supply shortage as the war came to a close.
This reality was a horrible tragedy but not a German extermination program.
There certainly was an immigration policy to move “Jews” from Germany. Millions did leave Germany throughout the thirties and during the war. They mostly claim “Holocaust Survivor” status which is tenuous when all the facts are considered.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 9, 2005 @ 6:21 pm
Views that examine and question the extermination legend.
www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/harwoodeng.pdf
http://www.vho.org/tr/2000/2/tr02evidence.html
http://www.vho.org/tr/2000/4/gcairphoto.html
http://www.remember.org/7/chamber-dachau-gas.html
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p187_Faurisson.html
http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_gas.html
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 10, 2005 @ 1:57 am
Gary and others
This Christopher Brooks guy is either barking mad or a Jew-hater or probably both. Why bother humouring him with responses?
Comment by pommygranate — November 11, 2005 @ 6:20 pm
pommygranate, the facts, the documents, the private correspondence and a rational analysis of the propaganda agendas, exposed frauds, regular absurdities in atrocity stories and the millions of “survivors” claiming reparations do not deliver a genuine document or witness that validates the “gassing” extermination theory.
The issue is not me it is the hundreds of tonnes of evidence that contradict the legend and the total lack of any real evidence to support the “gassing” myth.
One thing is glaringly obvious, not a single proven victim of “gassing” has been offered yet we are to believe there were millions killed in an industrial fashion.
The discussions on this blog certainly demonstrate the denial of troubling contradictions and absurdities in favour of believing the mass media that has a clear documented record of dishing up lies day in day out.
The same blind logic has been employed here by commentators to analyse “terrorism.
The value in comprehending and studying the Holohoax dimensions is to be confronted with just how clever propaganda really can be, and how powerful the enemies of truth have become.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 11, 2005 @ 6:52 pm
Pommygranate,
I like to get to the nub of Mr Brooks’ point of view. I fail every single time and this time is no exception. I still do not know who, what or why about the creators of the alleged holocaust myth and I think it’s because Mr Brooks doesn’t either. I want to force him to tell me who these people are or else admit that he really has no idea but he does neither.
So now I’ve given up and he will say it’s because I’m brainwashed and lazy and all the rest of it but really it’s because I just can’t get a straight, unambiguous answer.
Comment by Gary Monro — November 12, 2005 @ 1:49 pm
Gary, if the tonnes of archive material and all the genuine historical record of the period has no mention of a “gassing” one person, let alone millions, yet Hollywood, TV epics and the entire education system propagate a powerful “mythology” that is not insignificant in the perceptions and attitudes that manipulate and influence human affairs then the only rational response would be to investigate just what the truth might be.
Criminals and shysters do not make a habit of keeping minutes for the public to peruse.
Gary, it is hardly ingenious to continue to make me the issue instead of the facts.
I have presented a number of references that set out various frauds which clearly involve the individuals responsible directly and many others by implication.
You, as usual avoid any detailed discussion, happy to just pretend the material was not referenced and accuse me of not presenting a case when in fact I have done so.
Within the material I referenced are dozens of disturbing questions raised by the comparison of the factual record with the Hollywood legend.
Gary, one intrigue of my research was to discover that the Manly immigration camp in Sydney had gassing chambers for new arrivals.
The historical record of this facility reads identical to the Auschwitz and Dachau documents.
Disease control was a major issue requiring large resources. As with Manly, Auschwitz and Dachau the archives are full of the evidence of what was planned and carried out.
It is not me that that needs to answer questions, it is the creators and propagators of the lies.
In my experience very few have the courage to find answers to the questions that are clearly posed in the references I pointed towards.
The subject is indeed vast and complex.
Tricky frauds and truck loads of devious hype and deliberate propaganda have been, and continue to be, employed in similar fashion and by similar criminals as the war promoters at this time.
Gary, perhaps you could extend yourself and tender one piece of genuine evidence that supports the extermination thesis.
Once again Gary, this is your conspiracy theory and many have been convicted and executed.
I simply say, present the proof or address the lie.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 13, 2005 @ 2:27 am
Mr Brooks,
For the purpose of this discussion I’m not saying the holocaust happened or did not happen. You’re attempting to place the onus of proof on me while it is you who is actually making the claims.
I’m trying to find out who the people were who created this worldwide myth, forged all the supporting documentation and convinced all the witnesses - including those who claimed to be an actual part of the extermination - to lie.
When the opportunity arises I may very well investigate both sides of the holocaust story as I am pretty ignorant of the facts of the case generally. But when I come to the part where I try to see the case for it being a lie created to achieve some other end then I think I would be wasting my time asking you to help me identify the people behind the lie - or, indeed, to present any evidence that they even exist. For all your claims of investigative purity I do feel compelled to wonder how you accept the ‘fact’ of an incredible lie without being especially bothered by the fact that you have no evidence even of the liar.
Let’s agree to differ and close this one. Feel free to have the last word.
Comment by Gary Monro — November 13, 2005 @ 12:00 pm
Gary, if you are genuine and honest you can not be selective about when you might engage the truth.
The truth must be incarnate in every minuscule of your existence.
We do not have the luxury of putting it aside like a tired board game when our interest wanes and the next titillation catches our attention.
The truth about World War 2 and “Holocaust” claims lie at the very centre of perceived comprehension of our time.
The lives of billions are effected and will have their futures directed by the victorious “reality”.
Gary, is your politics just a self serving game?
Politics should be the determined search for truth and striving to release the generous and abundant realities of creation for the just benefit of all.
Gary, as an aspirant to public position you surely do not have the luxury of indifference.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 13, 2005 @ 5:07 pm
Nothing to concern lovers of “British” values here.
Revisionist Historian, David Irving, is added to a growing list of imprisoned writers who dare discuss what the archives reveal despite the almost universal religious acceptance of the Hollywood created atrocity exaggerations.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/index.html
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 17, 2005 @ 5:57 am
Why are you all limiting the discussion to Auschwitz? Auschwitz was a camp of many functions, including extermination and labour. What about the camps that only had one purpose? Treblinka, Chelmno, Belzec and Sobibor are all camps whose sole purpose was to murder people.
Comment by lascivious — November 19, 2005 @ 9:50 pm
lascivious, the camps you refer to were transit camps and no genuine evidence has ever validated your claim that these camps were part of an extermination program.
This article refers to the monitoring of the German treatment of prisoners and dismisses the “gassing” claims as bunk.
It was written before the political myth took control of the perception now described as the “Holocaust” and protected by the “law”.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
Do you support the incarceration of those who wish to draw attention to these historical questions?
Revisionist writers are certainly under attack at present. David Irving is one of several recent arrests.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — November 20, 2005 @ 6:40 pm
Little mature capacity to analyse the facts of the “Holocaust” legend can be found here at the Monro Blog.
Fellow blogger, lascivious, dedicated a thread to attacking this commentator but unable to answer the most basic questions he deleted his effort.
The subject is now becoming more prominent in the mass media following the arrest of Irving in Austria and now Mel Gibson is in the sites of the High Priests of “Truth”.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17498008%255E2702,00.html
Is Mel Gibson another “dangerous madman”?
How can Gary and lascivious sustain a belief in the “gassing” thesis but not be able to name one single established victim.
Comment by Christopher Brooks — December 9, 2005 @ 1:07 am